Parallel question: Vaccinated memory B cells have been demonstrated to stop "improving" after 2 to 5 months, while memory B cells from natural immunity seem to continue to improve... Will this be an impediment for the vaccinated with a previous infection in the future?
Excellent question! I too want to know if getting the vaccine AFTER Covid recoverY interrupts infection acquired natural immunity…. Will the Vaccine antibodies dominate Just as if the person never had natural immunity at all?
ME: Dr. Malone, when the vaccinated contract COVID after injection, do you know if they develop natural immunity in the same way the unvaccinated do, or is that process thwarted? (Granted, it may still be too early to make such a determination, and this article suggests it is still an unknown: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC8402626/)
If they can still develop antibodies, do you think the highly-transmissible and apparently innocuous Omicron has the potential to achieve the natural herd immunity that we appeared to be on the precipice of a year ago, according to this December 2020 “Medical Hypotheses” article, “Is a COVID-19 Vaccine Developed by Nature Already at Work?”:
“The COVID-19 positive cases are increasing at an alarming rate across the world. On the contrary, the morbidity and mortality are showing decreasing trend as time progresses. The most intriguing part is the rise in asymptomatic Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Corona Virus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) positive cases in the population, which made us speculate some kind of gradual development of immunity in the population.… Thus, we hypothesized the existence of SAMPPs mediated the development of immunity against SARS-CoV-2 infection, which has caused an increase in the incidence rate of asymptomatic cases and a decrease in mortality rate.” (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33059225/)
DR. MALONE: If vaccinated with a genetic vaccine that only encodes for one protein (spike), the vaccinated do not develop the same protection as those who have caught the disease. There are 29 proteins in SARS-CoV-2 -which the body will mount an immune response with natural infection.
I had lunch with a friend today and she said her sister-in-law got the vaccine to travel. Her sister-in-law got hives with the first shot and second shot. My question is why would you put your body at risk? Was this an allergic reaction? Could the third booster do more harm since the body reacted from the vaccine?
My children 27 and 29 received both Moderna shots. As you have stated that vaccines are at great risk, how do they protect themselves other than taking the booster.
Emphasis on threats and weaknesses only is not objective assessment of situation of vaxxed. Opportunities and strength should also be emphasised to provide complete SWOT analysis. Dr. Bossche somehow disregards effector T cells primed after infection against broader repertoire of viral epitopes and the second element Dr. Bossche neglects is mucosal immunity, which is not suppressed by the vaccinal S directed immune reaction because in upper respiratory tract polymeric secretory IgA and tissue resident T cells are prevalent, while vaccinal T cells and limited number of polymeric Abs from the circulation that even reach the mucosae of upper respiratory tract are not functional there.
Therefore, I am rather optimistic about the vaccinees who get infected and acquire hybrid immunity. I would also guess that they shall not face ADE because their S-directed T cells shall not be functional against new viral strains and hopefully their plasma blasts are short-lived, provided they do not get boost and if they train their immunity then using innocuous rhinovirus, parapoxvirus or HERV-K102 vaccines for instance.
What is clearly weak is you even daring to write the word "innocuous" in relation to any vaccines ever used in animals or humans. Full Definition of innocuous. 1 : producing no injury : harmless. "guess" is also problematic, lets see what else... "hopefully their plasma blasts are short-lived" ummmm yeah... how about "provided they do not get boost"
Sorry, based on what you have written, I have no confidence what so ever that you have presented an "objective assessment" for "vaccinees who get infected". I have a question, until 2021 I don't think I have ever faced the term "hybrid immunity" in relation to a vaccinated person becoming infected with the very virus the vaccine was supposed to protect against. For instance, FLU vaccine history... can you show me where in the medical jargon our community would let patients know that the "break through case" of FLU has resulted in "hybrid immunity"? Maybe its just an insider immunologist term? IDK.
My comment was not published to boost your confidence in me. My comment was rather published to test the reaction of the sympathiser when the chieftain is criticised.
You shall see more and more scientific publications that argue in line with my proposal that instead of developing vaccines that prepare an adaptive immunity to recognize the pathogen, the strategies shall rather aim at the pathogen being recognized by the innate immunity. First the trend shall be seen in cancer vaccines. With regard to SC2 just wait for some more publications on activation of nonspecific innate immunity to cope with viral NSP1 that suppress type I interferon induction, ORF8 that downregulates MHC-I, and glycan shields that suppress dendritic cells and T cell activisation. And then you perhaps shall understand why innocuous rhinovirus vaccine is mentioned.
With regard to longevity of plasma blasts read more about cross-reactive HCoV immunity upon vaccination against SC2 and you shall find out that only short-lived plasma blasts may be induced upon the vaccination.
I have a science background and work in healthcare, and I don't fully understand the very complex immune system.
It seems they are finding deficits in vaccinated people's t cells. I don't know if these are the effector t cells that you speak of. It's described in this article and it has links to the original material.
Thanks for encouragement. Dr.Bossche’s comment on Bhakdi’s explanation is correct. My point was not about cross-reactive adaptive immune reaction. My point was about polyfunctional SARS-CoV-2-specific T cells even after mild C19 (https://doi.org/10.1016/j.it.2020.11.002). And my point was about activation of innate immunity: interferons, dendritic cells, etc. If you want to understand this later point, you may read publications of https://www.voiceforscienceandsolidarity.org/authors/marian-laderoute on Herv-k102 vaccines for example.
Parallel question: Vaccinated memory B cells have been demonstrated to stop "improving" after 2 to 5 months, while memory B cells from natural immunity seem to continue to improve... Will this be an impediment for the vaccinated with a previous infection in the future?
And does it matter if a person got the vaccine before or after infection
Excellent question! I too want to know if getting the vaccine AFTER Covid recoverY interrupts infection acquired natural immunity…. Will the Vaccine antibodies dominate Just as if the person never had natural immunity at all?
Well, this is rather coincidental since I just asked Dr. Robert Malone almost the exact same question (https://rwmalonemd.substack.com/p/not-in-the-news-covid-epidemiology). I’ll share my question and his response below in case you’re interested in his take.
ME: Dr. Malone, when the vaccinated contract COVID after injection, do you know if they develop natural immunity in the same way the unvaccinated do, or is that process thwarted? (Granted, it may still be too early to make such a determination, and this article suggests it is still an unknown: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC8402626/)
If they can still develop antibodies, do you think the highly-transmissible and apparently innocuous Omicron has the potential to achieve the natural herd immunity that we appeared to be on the precipice of a year ago, according to this December 2020 “Medical Hypotheses” article, “Is a COVID-19 Vaccine Developed by Nature Already at Work?”:
“The COVID-19 positive cases are increasing at an alarming rate across the world. On the contrary, the morbidity and mortality are showing decreasing trend as time progresses. The most intriguing part is the rise in asymptomatic Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Corona Virus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) positive cases in the population, which made us speculate some kind of gradual development of immunity in the population.… Thus, we hypothesized the existence of SAMPPs mediated the development of immunity against SARS-CoV-2 infection, which has caused an increase in the incidence rate of asymptomatic cases and a decrease in mortality rate.” (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33059225/)
DR. MALONE: If vaccinated with a genetic vaccine that only encodes for one protein (spike), the vaccinated do not develop the same protection as those who have caught the disease. There are 29 proteins in SARS-CoV-2 -which the body will mount an immune response with natural infection.
I had lunch with a friend today and she said her sister-in-law got the vaccine to travel. Her sister-in-law got hives with the first shot and second shot. My question is why would you put your body at risk? Was this an allergic reaction? Could the third booster do more harm since the body reacted from the vaccine?
thank you.
My children 27 and 29 received both Moderna shots. As you have stated that vaccines are at great risk, how do they protect themselves other than taking the booster.
https://covid19criticalcare.com/covid-19-protocols/i-mask-plus-protocol/
Unless they have issues they are at very low risk from infection. The boosters for them have no upside.
Excellent answer. Thank you Dr. Bosshe
Emphasis on threats and weaknesses only is not objective assessment of situation of vaxxed. Opportunities and strength should also be emphasised to provide complete SWOT analysis. Dr. Bossche somehow disregards effector T cells primed after infection against broader repertoire of viral epitopes and the second element Dr. Bossche neglects is mucosal immunity, which is not suppressed by the vaccinal S directed immune reaction because in upper respiratory tract polymeric secretory IgA and tissue resident T cells are prevalent, while vaccinal T cells and limited number of polymeric Abs from the circulation that even reach the mucosae of upper respiratory tract are not functional there.
Therefore, I am rather optimistic about the vaccinees who get infected and acquire hybrid immunity. I would also guess that they shall not face ADE because their S-directed T cells shall not be functional against new viral strains and hopefully their plasma blasts are short-lived, provided they do not get boost and if they train their immunity then using innocuous rhinovirus, parapoxvirus or HERV-K102 vaccines for instance.
What is clearly weak is you even daring to write the word "innocuous" in relation to any vaccines ever used in animals or humans. Full Definition of innocuous. 1 : producing no injury : harmless. "guess" is also problematic, lets see what else... "hopefully their plasma blasts are short-lived" ummmm yeah... how about "provided they do not get boost"
Sorry, based on what you have written, I have no confidence what so ever that you have presented an "objective assessment" for "vaccinees who get infected". I have a question, until 2021 I don't think I have ever faced the term "hybrid immunity" in relation to a vaccinated person becoming infected with the very virus the vaccine was supposed to protect against. For instance, FLU vaccine history... can you show me where in the medical jargon our community would let patients know that the "break through case" of FLU has resulted in "hybrid immunity"? Maybe its just an insider immunologist term? IDK.
My comment was not published to boost your confidence in me. My comment was rather published to test the reaction of the sympathiser when the chieftain is criticised.
You shall see more and more scientific publications that argue in line with my proposal that instead of developing vaccines that prepare an adaptive immunity to recognize the pathogen, the strategies shall rather aim at the pathogen being recognized by the innate immunity. First the trend shall be seen in cancer vaccines. With regard to SC2 just wait for some more publications on activation of nonspecific innate immunity to cope with viral NSP1 that suppress type I interferon induction, ORF8 that downregulates MHC-I, and glycan shields that suppress dendritic cells and T cell activisation. And then you perhaps shall understand why innocuous rhinovirus vaccine is mentioned.
With regard to longevity of plasma blasts read more about cross-reactive HCoV immunity upon vaccination against SC2 and you shall find out that only short-lived plasma blasts may be induced upon the vaccination.
Man... Bots be get'n sufisticated.
I have a science background and work in healthcare, and I don't fully understand the very complex immune system.
It seems they are finding deficits in vaccinated people's t cells. I don't know if these are the effector t cells that you speak of. It's described in this article and it has links to the original material.
https://dailyexpose.uk/2021/10/27/official-government-reports-suggest-the-fully-vaccinated-will-develop-acquired-immunodeficiency-syndrome-by-christmas/
Thanks for encouragement. Dr.Bossche’s comment on Bhakdi’s explanation is correct. My point was not about cross-reactive adaptive immune reaction. My point was about polyfunctional SARS-CoV-2-specific T cells even after mild C19 (https://doi.org/10.1016/j.it.2020.11.002). And my point was about activation of innate immunity: interferons, dendritic cells, etc. If you want to understand this later point, you may read publications of https://www.voiceforscienceandsolidarity.org/authors/marian-laderoute on Herv-k102 vaccines for example.
I wonder, if I had c-19 *before* getting the vaccine (I think I did) if this would also lead to immune escape variants?