The elevated IgG4 levels in vaccinated individuals remain a popular topic, but the interpretation of this immunological response still leaves much to be desired.
"But but but...hOw CaN tHeRe Be IgG4 increase or even the existence of antigenic domains since we know there's No SuCH tHiNgS As ViRuSeS!?!? 🙄 The antibodies that you measure in your experiments are ultra-specifically binding to cellular debris and pixies, not viral epitopes!" - your neighborhood virus-denier
(I obviously do believe that viruses exist, and the adaptive immune system does too, along with IgG and all its subclasses, antigenic imprinting, etc and all the immunologic mechanisms that Dr. Bossche effectively describes).
I continue to be puzzled by the way virus-nihilists believe viruses dont exist when tens or hundreds of thousands of people study them and all the components of the adaptive immune system like those described here...
Jennifer Smith PhD made a good observation, when she said, in her view, the no-virus camp were just the opposite extreme of the mass psychosis that held so many in its grip in 2020. I think what has happened is, though they were correct and wise in their decision not to get vaccinated, and to be suspicious of mainstream, this has gone to their heads and egos somewhat, and the trauma of what they have lived over the last 5 or so years, often being alone among their friends and families, has hurt them and affected their mental health more than they realise or are able to reflect on. People have lost all faith in mainstream medicine and have adopted extreme views. I've only recently saved myself and pulled myself out of no-such-thing-as-viruses religion.
That's a well written and reasonable response. I totally agree about the likely underlying psychological phenomenon.
I also apologize a little for the tone of my comment, it was a bit snarky. I honestly do have compassion for the no-virus people as I think it's another iteration of misplaced contrarianism in response to the severe violations and lies of the pandemic.
Your comment didn't come across as snarky. But I've been in both sides and could identify the behaviors within myself that allowed me to get sucked in, and I was lucky. It's confusing and lonely sometimes, and we seek guidance from authority, but that's also how cults form, and whether natural or intentional, there seem to have sprung up a lot of hero worshipping of the no-virus leaders. I would raise questions about Geert's theories in no-virus chat groups and they'd bite me head off for even mentioning his name! It just all got a bit silly.
Before covid virus denying became a thing, there were peaceful and respectful discussions about covid in the comments sections of articles. I think the very obnoxious no virus debating and attacking was designed to divide the anti vax movement.
Yes, interesting to consider the phenomenon of hero-worship.
The blind trust in the "experts" of mainstream medicine (and really of mainstream media and government, who normie doctors were following despite medical common sense) was one mistake made by a large portion of the population, causing them to blindly accept pandemic gaslighting and an untested new biologic genetic injection despite observable logical and scientific inconsistencies.
But now many of those that have "awakened" to the corruption of the pandemic are blindly putting their trust in other experts (e.g., trusting no-virus pundits).
Sadly, I think this also applies to blindly following naturopathic health providers too (which I believe has a lot of good and useful knowledge and much of which I incorporate after vetting). But obviously while alternative/naturopathic medicine has much to offer, some things may be less true or effective than others. Also I do think most within that alternative medical community are well-intended (as are most allopathic medical doctors as individual people).
It's an epistemological issue. We all have to trust other people (including experts) to some degree at different times. But we have to maintain critical thinking. At times we'll have to discern grifts and lies from the other side as well.
In addition to virus nihilism, I've seen it in other falsifiable theories like the graphene-oxide nanobot theory. They're like the medical/microbiologic Flat Earth.
As the previous comment said, it's an understandable reactionism by a person who suffered the trauma of systemic lies and betrayal, especially by trusted authorities. These people lose their footing on truth and are left philosophically floating. The trouble with these "incorrect conspiracy theories" is that they disrupt the true and necessary contrarianism by:
- creating debunkable false flags for fact checkers
- create division and distraction within the resistance movement, and
- set awakened people up to deconstruct from the contrarian paradigm and return back into the 'asleep' normie fold once they find out that the rebels were grifters after all.
Thank you Doc, yes I've also seen that! It helped me gain some much needed clarity. Also I never forgot this excellent post by GVB back in 2021 (his point 9 being particularly relevant I think. https://www.voiceforscienceandsolidarity.org/scientific-blog/some-guidance-to-separating-the-wheat-from-the-chaff Thank you, it's nice to have the exchange and feel less alone in this complex world we find ourselves! Ps, Jennifer is excellent, a really smart gal.
Yes, and I've found that the same 'gone to their heads and egos somewhat' translates into other spheres, usually that of 'we were right about this from the beginning so we're now right all the time on other issues - even those which haven't any connection whatsoever.' Which can be very dangerous if they have a captive audience for any reason.
Because....igG4 test merely reveals the presence of spike protein antibodies. The spike is what programs the cells to continue to produce copies of more (and escalating) spike protein, as the cells reproduce, the spike is present. It is what allowed the foreign DNA ( from Monkey, aborted human fetal cells/DNA) entrance into our DNA. The DNA proteins from these other biological entities have integrated with our proteins. This changes the code of life created in us....our very DNA!
We become transhuman!
The spike was necessary to allow this process to happen. It's not that hard to understand.
The statement I put in quotes is not what I think. It's what a no-virus person would say. I wrote it out to show how silly it is. That in the face of the scientific evidence of immunology, which is large, their no-virus belief could be true. Not only is virology robust in its evidence but so is immunology, further refuting virus nihilism.
I do understand your frustration because it is quite frustrating to talk to many of the no-virus crowd. They can be quite abrasive and also oddly stubborn and incapable of fruitful discussion. They always cite their favorite 7 arguments about "it's never been isolated" etc etc (which are simply untrue).
My heart does break for some of them. I think some (many?) may even be on the spectrum. I feel for them. Wish someone in their real life who they trust could show them some immunology/virology.. 😓
No worries. I can only imagine how that must have been.
I've only had the pleasure of banging my head against that wall for the past half year or so. Including the infamous Mike Yeadon coming all the way into my 25-follower account's posts to no one 😅
It's literally the microbiological Flat Earth.
I think Andrew makes some good points in this message thread ☝🏻
My husband and I are now entirely anti-vax also. We do not vaccinate our 5 cats either. We question everything. We are in our upper 60's, on no meds at all and live a healthy active lifestyle. I think one of the most important things we did these last 10 years is make our home a "dumb" home instead of a smart home. We love the sun.
Yes, we're the same. Up with the sun, computers hard wired, little to no artificial light at night, early to bed with lots of sun on our bare skin and eyes during the day. Local, seasonal food. Living in rhythm with Nature as much as we can manage.
I hope that Dr VDB recognizes there never was any good science behind pretty well all jabs. But likely he will not. He’s not a grifter like Offit and that ilk, but I fear Geert may have too much time invested in the religion of vaccine to reverse course. Still I’m glad we have him .
Dear Geert. I remember reading in one of your older articles you suggested groups within the population that were at lower risk from a potential virulent strain, one of which was those who were naturally infected with covid prior to vaccination. Covid spread very rapidly among young people, students at the college I work at were constantly getting sick, a long time before vaccines for that age group were rolled out. Is there any possibility we could have underestimated the numbers of people who could be in this group? Are they helping keep the aggressive strain at bay? Is the pool of strong immune systems amoung our young people a positive factor?
Without repeatable experiments that generate results confirming the host/pathogen interplay is unfolding as you have theorized, authorities will not change their course of action. Even then I have my doubts, but regardless this is a prerequisite.
This would be assuming said authorities actually care about the health and life of the population, rather than about extracting wealth and servitude from the population.
I'm an amateur, but I thought the main danger of the switch to high levels of IgG4 was because it caused co-existence with all sorts of pathogens and even cancers. IgG1 and 3 are the fighters, G2 is the restrainer when in excess and IgG4 is the 'we lost the battle, how can we co-exist with the pathogen/cancer now?' So the effect is tremendous without even considering the covid and vax spikes. Is Geert saying the IgG4 problem acts differently w virus/vax?
"However, these responses are unrelated to central or peripheral tolerance." (In other words, this is the tolerance we usually think about with IgG4). "Rather, they involve the production of an immunoglobulin isotype (IgG4) or Tc clones that have reduced affinity for conserved spike (S)-associated antigenic domains and, consequently, diminished functional capacity to neutralize the infectious virus or eliminate virus-infected cells." In other words, the IgG4s don't even work to co-exist with the virus/spikes. . . they don't do anything and they don't trigger Tcs T cells?
IgG1 and IgG3 increase resistance and fight in immune system
IgG2 tones them down when they are excessive---autoimmune
IgG4 co-exists with the pathogen/allergen as if to say "we lost the front line battle, now we'll co-exist with the invader." good in allergies. bad in cancer etc.
Rails have been laid , train has left the station as it puffs along its journey, each stop has been a unloading information, sharing with the gathered residents, no time table is set just an onward forward journey to the inevitable destination of FOOLS REGRET!
Is there a way to address the side effects of the vaccine? I have most of my family that took it ( I did not--although I understand I may have been exposed through shedding). There may be some of them open to discussing side effects and mitigating them....
That's a highly technical article for a non scientist rather a c19 plandemic "studier".
My takeawayremains as it has been, the gene therapy shot made no sense but as a depopulation shot. Didn't stay in the arm, and those that understand the adaptive immune system could never make such a rediculous statement. What is the off switch for spike production. Why biohack the body to make a hyperinflammatory spike as thr "cure"? What was wrong with dead spikes? All that said knowing the virus was made in a lab as proven by Ruggerio in 2020.
Does “highly vaccinated populations” refer to people who have been vaccinated multiple times (boosters etc) OR does it mean geographically concentrated populations who have simply been vaccinated, even just once?
According to Geert’s book ‘Highly C-19 vaccinated’ refers to a high rate of C-19 vaccinations with mRNA-based vaccines (regardless of the number of injections/doses or combination with other, non-mRNA -based C-19 vaccines) or to a high rate of C-19 priming with non-mRNA vaccines followed by one or more booster injections.
I'm keeping of it the last paragraph:
"focusing primarily on the dysregulation of the INNATE immune system"
You missed the point.
troll ...
Troll
Hi, can someone maybe explain in 12 year old language what is going on and going to happen?
I just found GvdB and I’m very interested, even though I only understand 20% of his articles.
Also, if there is any truth in it, why is no one else talking about it?
COVID 19 was a worldwide situation.
https://rumble.com/v2ttd3w-1.-how-mrna-vaccines-and-vaccine-breakthrough-infections-drive-viral-immune.html
"But but but...hOw CaN tHeRe Be IgG4 increase or even the existence of antigenic domains since we know there's No SuCH tHiNgS As ViRuSeS!?!? 🙄 The antibodies that you measure in your experiments are ultra-specifically binding to cellular debris and pixies, not viral epitopes!" - your neighborhood virus-denier
(I obviously do believe that viruses exist, and the adaptive immune system does too, along with IgG and all its subclasses, antigenic imprinting, etc and all the immunologic mechanisms that Dr. Bossche effectively describes).
I continue to be puzzled by the way virus-nihilists believe viruses dont exist when tens or hundreds of thousands of people study them and all the components of the adaptive immune system like those described here...
Jennifer Smith PhD made a good observation, when she said, in her view, the no-virus camp were just the opposite extreme of the mass psychosis that held so many in its grip in 2020. I think what has happened is, though they were correct and wise in their decision not to get vaccinated, and to be suspicious of mainstream, this has gone to their heads and egos somewhat, and the trauma of what they have lived over the last 5 or so years, often being alone among their friends and families, has hurt them and affected their mental health more than they realise or are able to reflect on. People have lost all faith in mainstream medicine and have adopted extreme views. I've only recently saved myself and pulled myself out of no-such-thing-as-viruses religion.
That's a well written and reasonable response. I totally agree about the likely underlying psychological phenomenon.
I also apologize a little for the tone of my comment, it was a bit snarky. I honestly do have compassion for the no-virus people as I think it's another iteration of misplaced contrarianism in response to the severe violations and lies of the pandemic.
Your comment didn't come across as snarky. But I've been in both sides and could identify the behaviors within myself that allowed me to get sucked in, and I was lucky. It's confusing and lonely sometimes, and we seek guidance from authority, but that's also how cults form, and whether natural or intentional, there seem to have sprung up a lot of hero worshipping of the no-virus leaders. I would raise questions about Geert's theories in no-virus chat groups and they'd bite me head off for even mentioning his name! It just all got a bit silly.
Before covid virus denying became a thing, there were peaceful and respectful discussions about covid in the comments sections of articles. I think the very obnoxious no virus debating and attacking was designed to divide the anti vax movement.
To divide the anti-vax movement indeed, with Mike Yeadon possibly playing a not so innocent role in it …
Yes and the tone of the debate changed sharply and it seemed fake to me. Some got enraged by the use of the word virus.
This the final word on viruses https://fasteddynz.substack.com/p/dr-sam-bailey-viruses-do-not-exist
https://fasteddynz.substack.com/p/introducing-super-snatch-sasha
'hero worshipping' - definitely. Glad I'm not the only one to have noticed it all.
Yes, interesting to consider the phenomenon of hero-worship.
The blind trust in the "experts" of mainstream medicine (and really of mainstream media and government, who normie doctors were following despite medical common sense) was one mistake made by a large portion of the population, causing them to blindly accept pandemic gaslighting and an untested new biologic genetic injection despite observable logical and scientific inconsistencies.
But now many of those that have "awakened" to the corruption of the pandemic are blindly putting their trust in other experts (e.g., trusting no-virus pundits).
Sadly, I think this also applies to blindly following naturopathic health providers too (which I believe has a lot of good and useful knowledge and much of which I incorporate after vetting). But obviously while alternative/naturopathic medicine has much to offer, some things may be less true or effective than others. Also I do think most within that alternative medical community are well-intended (as are most allopathic medical doctors as individual people).
It's an epistemological issue. We all have to trust other people (including experts) to some degree at different times. But we have to maintain critical thinking. At times we'll have to discern grifts and lies from the other side as well.
In addition to virus nihilism, I've seen it in other falsifiable theories like the graphene-oxide nanobot theory. They're like the medical/microbiologic Flat Earth.
As the previous comment said, it's an understandable reactionism by a person who suffered the trauma of systemic lies and betrayal, especially by trusted authorities. These people lose their footing on truth and are left philosophically floating. The trouble with these "incorrect conspiracy theories" is that they disrupt the true and necessary contrarianism by:
- creating debunkable false flags for fact checkers
- create division and distraction within the resistance movement, and
- set awakened people up to deconstruct from the contrarian paradigm and return back into the 'asleep' normie fold once they find out that the rebels were grifters after all.
Appreciate you. Your first comment was something I've thought myself.
Also I just went and read Jennifer Smith, PhD's substack. Good find. She reposted this essay by Dr. Palmer that was pretty good: https://doctors4covidethics.org/do-viruses-exist/#ref4
Thank you Doc, yes I've also seen that! It helped me gain some much needed clarity. Also I never forgot this excellent post by GVB back in 2021 (his point 9 being particularly relevant I think. https://www.voiceforscienceandsolidarity.org/scientific-blog/some-guidance-to-separating-the-wheat-from-the-chaff Thank you, it's nice to have the exchange and feel less alone in this complex world we find ourselves! Ps, Jennifer is excellent, a really smart gal.
Not extreme views, adapted views of mainstream medicine based on evidence. The extreme position would be the formerly trusted institutions themselves.
Yes, and I've found that the same 'gone to their heads and egos somewhat' translates into other spheres, usually that of 'we were right about this from the beginning so we're now right all the time on other issues - even those which haven't any connection whatsoever.' Which can be very dangerous if they have a captive audience for any reason.
And accurate comment. I think you nailed it
Because....igG4 test merely reveals the presence of spike protein antibodies. The spike is what programs the cells to continue to produce copies of more (and escalating) spike protein, as the cells reproduce, the spike is present. It is what allowed the foreign DNA ( from Monkey, aborted human fetal cells/DNA) entrance into our DNA. The DNA proteins from these other biological entities have integrated with our proteins. This changes the code of life created in us....our very DNA!
We become transhuman!
The spike was necessary to allow this process to happen. It's not that hard to understand.
Exactly... just because there is no proof that viruses do exist does not prove that they do not exist! You cannot prove a negative 👍
Will, I do believe in viruses.
The statement I put in quotes is not what I think. It's what a no-virus person would say. I wrote it out to show how silly it is. That in the face of the scientific evidence of immunology, which is large, their no-virus belief could be true. Not only is virology robust in its evidence but so is immunology, further refuting virus nihilism.
I do understand your frustration because it is quite frustrating to talk to many of the no-virus crowd. They can be quite abrasive and also oddly stubborn and incapable of fruitful discussion. They always cite their favorite 7 arguments about "it's never been isolated" etc etc (which are simply untrue).
But you directed it towards the wrong person 🫣
Anyways, cheers ✌🏻
My heart does break for some of them. I think some (many?) may even be on the spectrum. I feel for them. Wish someone in their real life who they trust could show them some immunology/virology.. 😓
Lol
No worries. I can only imagine how that must have been.
I've only had the pleasure of banging my head against that wall for the past half year or so. Including the infamous Mike Yeadon coming all the way into my 25-follower account's posts to no one 😅
It's literally the microbiological Flat Earth.
I think Andrew makes some good points in this message thread ☝🏻
So what about the other COVID-19 "vaccines" or any new corona or influenza virus "vaccines" coming down the pipeline?
Remember the Mix and Match ANY COVID-19 "vaccine" strategies that were deployed too, plus the influenza vaccines. What about those Dr. Vanden Bossche?
Merogenomics on YouTube has been reviewing the igG4 issue and related studies.
So far it seems the immune refocusing only occurs with the mRNA vaccines.
My husband and I are now entirely anti-vax also. We do not vaccinate our 5 cats either. We question everything. We are in our upper 60's, on no meds at all and live a healthy active lifestyle. I think one of the most important things we did these last 10 years is make our home a "dumb" home instead of a smart home. We love the sun.
Yes, we're the same. Up with the sun, computers hard wired, little to no artificial light at night, early to bed with lots of sun on our bare skin and eyes during the day. Local, seasonal food. Living in rhythm with Nature as much as we can manage.
I hope that Dr VDB recognizes there never was any good science behind pretty well all jabs. But likely he will not. He’s not a grifter like Offit and that ilk, but I fear Geert may have too much time invested in the religion of vaccine to reverse course. Still I’m glad we have him .
Oh, me too. No shots ever. No vaccines mRNA or otherwise.
Thanks for the update.
Dear Geert. I remember reading in one of your older articles you suggested groups within the population that were at lower risk from a potential virulent strain, one of which was those who were naturally infected with covid prior to vaccination. Covid spread very rapidly among young people, students at the college I work at were constantly getting sick, a long time before vaccines for that age group were rolled out. Is there any possibility we could have underestimated the numbers of people who could be in this group? Are they helping keep the aggressive strain at bay? Is the pool of strong immune systems amoung our young people a positive factor?
Without repeatable experiments that generate results confirming the host/pathogen interplay is unfolding as you have theorized, authorities will not change their course of action. Even then I have my doubts, but regardless this is a prerequisite.
This would be assuming said authorities actually care about the health and life of the population, rather than about extracting wealth and servitude from the population.
I'm an amateur, but I thought the main danger of the switch to high levels of IgG4 was because it caused co-existence with all sorts of pathogens and even cancers. IgG1 and 3 are the fighters, G2 is the restrainer when in excess and IgG4 is the 'we lost the battle, how can we co-exist with the pathogen/cancer now?' So the effect is tremendous without even considering the covid and vax spikes. Is Geert saying the IgG4 problem acts differently w virus/vax?
"However, these responses are unrelated to central or peripheral tolerance." (In other words, this is the tolerance we usually think about with IgG4). "Rather, they involve the production of an immunoglobulin isotype (IgG4) or Tc clones that have reduced affinity for conserved spike (S)-associated antigenic domains and, consequently, diminished functional capacity to neutralize the infectious virus or eliminate virus-infected cells." In other words, the IgG4s don't even work to co-exist with the virus/spikes. . . they don't do anything and they don't trigger Tcs T cells?
Yes, now i too want to know, what exactly does IgG4 do?
IgG1 and IgG3 increase resistance and fight in immune system
IgG2 tones them down when they are excessive---autoimmune
IgG4 co-exists with the pathogen/allergen as if to say "we lost the front line battle, now we'll co-exist with the invader." good in allergies. bad in cancer etc.
Yes that is the surface explanation, but i want to understand how exactly IgG4 is different and therefore why it does these alleged things.
Does it have to do with the crazy rise of the Igg4 in the vaxxed population, no?
Rails have been laid , train has left the station as it puffs along its journey, each stop has been a unloading information, sharing with the gathered residents, no time table is set just an onward forward journey to the inevitable destination of FOOLS REGRET!
Is there a way to address the side effects of the vaccine? I have most of my family that took it ( I did not--although I understand I may have been exposed through shedding). There may be some of them open to discussing side effects and mitigating them....
See Peter McCullough - The Wellness Company, or Pierre Kory - Independent Medical Alliance (formerly FLCCC) They are 2 that have protocols for this...
That's a highly technical article for a non scientist rather a c19 plandemic "studier".
My takeawayremains as it has been, the gene therapy shot made no sense but as a depopulation shot. Didn't stay in the arm, and those that understand the adaptive immune system could never make such a rediculous statement. What is the off switch for spike production. Why biohack the body to make a hyperinflammatory spike as thr "cure"? What was wrong with dead spikes? All that said knowing the virus was made in a lab as proven by Ruggerio in 2020.
And... with the involvement of the US DOD and DARPA! - see Sasha Latypova....
Thanks for Sharing this Dr Bossche ,👍
🤔 🤨 🕳️ 😵💫 😆
Does “highly vaccinated populations” refer to people who have been vaccinated multiple times (boosters etc) OR does it mean geographically concentrated populations who have simply been vaccinated, even just once?
According to Geert’s book ‘Highly C-19 vaccinated’ refers to a high rate of C-19 vaccinations with mRNA-based vaccines (regardless of the number of injections/doses or combination with other, non-mRNA -based C-19 vaccines) or to a high rate of C-19 priming with non-mRNA vaccines followed by one or more booster injections.
Thanks!
Sounds like the storm is about to hit. The hubris of man knows no bounds.
Thank you for keeping us informed.